so this morning was the public talk and wt study.
after, we did our usual and went to eat.
the group was mixed ages.
Bonafide is still a JW Brother in good standing, while reniaa is a "sister"? I thought sisters weren't supposed to counsel or teach brothers?
Since she likes to copy\paste scriptures so much try this one:
1 Corinthians 14:34 (New International Version)
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
I like you reniaa, you make the forum interesting.
elders are told they are appointed by holy spirit.
that means the supreme god of the universe used his force to appoint them over the flock.. that is a major big deal.. so when they get in that back room, and the body of elders meets, or they are on a judicial committee or shepherding or whatever, they think they are speaking for jehovah god himself.. do we realize what that means?
that means that when they feel something, or they are emotional about something, or they get mad at someone in that room, they feel that is holy spirit directing them.. they don't realize they are on their own.
The scriptures you cite or may research are useless. That’s because what the Governing Body believes and whatever scripture you can quote are two different things.
They do believe that appointments are made by Holy Spirit. They are picked deliberately via Jehovah’s Organization. To say they are not chosen by Holy Spirit is to say that the Organization is not directed by Holy Spirit. If you were to imply or argue otherwise you would be an Apostate. The Bible is always consulted but appointments in Jehovah’s Organization are not done via a check off list.
If bad appointments or decisions are made they believe that Holy Spirit will make it known. If it is not made known in a relatively short period of time then they may have a problem with the Holy Spirit. If a Body of Elders makes too many bad appointments than a CO, DO or someone from the Organization will look at the possibility that maybe the Holy Spirit has “left the building”. This is usually because of the possibility that deliberate wrongdoing is being covered up in defiance of the Holy Spirit. They may take action to remove some Elders, temporarily put the congregation under the direction of another BOE, or in some cases disband altogether.
These actions are not done via check off list or scriptural examples. It sounds like you’re under the assumption that no action is ever taken without first carefully considering a rule book or scripture. That is just not the case.
dear all,.
how do you help someone who doesn't want to live anymore?.
my cousin, who seemingly has everything, good looks, a good job, a husband and family who loves her, has absolutely no wish to go on living.
I’m not qualified to answer.
But I think allot people have put things off in their lives because in paradise there will be plenty of time. I can’t count the number times someone said “In the New System I will learn…” painting, drawing, music, botany, gardening, science, astronomy, cooking, woodworking, etc, etc...
Medication and therapy is good for now. But at some point she needs to fill that hole in her life. I’m not a big fan of religion, but I would rather see someone join another religion vs. being depressed or suicidal.
Maybe see if you can’t get her involved in something. Doesn’t matter what just something that gets her out of the house a couple times a week. Something that gets her around other people. If she gets involved in other things and people she may find some new joys in her life.
I don’t want to just say “Join a club” so here are a couple of examples. I know one woman that joined a Belly Dance class. Now she has twenty new best friends. They meet for class and always hang out afterwards eating and talking. They also take trips to see professional shows out of town. That means staying hotels and having “road trips”. Plus twice a year they put on elaborate shows at the local mall.
Personally I joined a skydiving club which keeps me occupied. It’s a pretty tight group that is always looking for new converts. Most people try it once and leave. If you go back a second time you’re like one of the family.
Doesn’t matter what it is; just get her around more people.
C. T
elders are told they are appointed by holy spirit.
that means the supreme god of the universe used his force to appoint them over the flock.. that is a major big deal.. so when they get in that back room, and the body of elders meets, or they are on a judicial committee or shepherding or whatever, they think they are speaking for jehovah god himself.. do we realize what that means?
that means that when they feel something, or they are emotional about something, or they get mad at someone in that room, they feel that is holy spirit directing them.. they don't realize they are on their own.
Bonafide didn’t lie, you’re just mistaken.
That scripture is used as a guideline based on perceived facts. In every meeting I was in we prayed for Holy Spirit. If a brother was about to be appointed, and there was unknown information that would preclude him from being appointed, than Holy Spirit would make that known.
The same for judicial hearings. Decisions are based on perceived facts. But before hand direction from Holy Spirit is prayed for.
If it appears over time that the correct decision was made than Holy Spirit approved the decision. If shortly afterward new information comes to light that contradicts the decision than Holy Spirit made the truth known.
Either way it is assumed that all decisions are directed by Holy Spirit. Therefore the Elders can assume that all of their actions, decisions and opinions are directed, allowed or inspired by Holy Spirit.
Same goes for the Governing Body. Any decision they make is based on perceived facts. Since they are imperfect men it is possible for them to make a bad decision. And if they are about to make that bad decision then Holy Spirit is supposed to step in. Therefore all decisions are assumed to be inspired; otherwise the Holy Spirit would have put a stop to it.
elders are told they are appointed by holy spirit.
that means the supreme god of the universe used his force to appoint them over the flock.. that is a major big deal.. so when they get in that back room, and the body of elders meets, or they are on a judicial committee or shepherding or whatever, they think they are speaking for jehovah god himself.. do we realize what that means?
that means that when they feel something, or they are emotional about something, or they get mad at someone in that room, they feel that is holy spirit directing them.. they don't realize they are on their own.
For some reason this reminds me of the Stanford prison experiment. Students were divided up into guards and prisoners. The experiment was ended after the several guards started to exhibit "genuine" sadistic tendencies. It’s an interesting Psychology lesson on what happens when people are given the authority to discipline. And on what happens to people when they willing submit to that discipline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbs_lfBbmn8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
C. T.
http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20090607/lifestyle1102/90604024.
anyone else have any visceral reaction to this?
the entire announcement creeped me out..
Its sad they are not getting an education. But I hope they have a long and happy life.
But it did bother me that someone posted a comment about lawsuits. Attacking the WT and the GB is all fine and good. But doing it on someones wedding announcement article is a little bit of a low blow.
so this morning was the public talk and wt study.
after, we did our usual and went to eat.
the group was mixed ages.
Thanks for writing this down Bonafide, its absolutely classic.
My favorite part “Another sister in group, baptized one year: "Yes, we can ask questions." I started cracking up when I read that. It’s true though, you can ask questions all day long. You just can’t ask questions about answers.
I’m just worried about you though, you’re a dead man walking. Even though you ended the conversation I’m sure it really didn’t end. The gossip wheels are turning as we speak. Have you thought about fading yet?
C. T.
today's watchtower was nice.
under the heading:.
satan - a defiant adversary and apostate.
Satan vs. Jehovah = critical thinking vs. Governing Body
Yep, both of those are about the same...
i have been so worked up and worried for years about the end and armageddon that i have headaches, depression, and all kinds of maladies.
been having troubles with it since 4th grade and nothing seems to help.
just being at the kingdom hall is mentally taxing, just anything jw is mentally taxing.
I understand how you feel, try to find more brief respites.
Living with impending fear of Armageddon, Jehovah or whatever is not mentally healthy long term. I know it affected me growing up. Groups or religions use this fear to control and pressure people. I have found that many don’t live in fear but they still hold themselves to high moral standards. They do this not because of possible punishment but because they have sense of self worth. No one told them they were unworthy or "born into sin".
You sound depressed, and you’re comment about “being able end it all at anytime myself” is dangerous. It’s good to examine your beliefs, but at the end of the day you’re more important. Take care of yourself and find some joy in your life.
I think shamus100 is the one thats drunk:
